Tulpa.info - metaphysics

You may say he did this so we can have "Free will", but if that were so, why does he then select us to send us in one place or the other based upon our choices?

6:20 PM

Is it really a choice if he made one place desirable and the other despicable?

agree agree

I've explored those concepts greatly. The knowledge that evil cannot exist if sin is not an objective concept, but rather subjective to a god just shows greed or selfishness in my opinion, and it's what brought my out of my old religion. It's not to say a god like that doesn't exist, however. (edited)

A, or multiple, anyways

Well if you ask me, if god was perfect as portrayed by religion, then a lot of "his acts" are not justified. If you do find them justifications, it comes down to him not being perfect, but then he is not the same caracter with the one being portrayed.

9:22 PM

I love one puzzle I came up with once. My "logic" teacher asked me to prove once that god cannot be both all knowing and omnipotent at once.

9:23 PM

My answer may not be the best one, but it sure gives something to think about.

9:24 PM

Let's say he is all knowing. It means he cannot learn more than he currently knows. Hence, if there is something he îs unable to do, he is not omnipotent. However if he can learn more, he may be omnipotent, but not all knowing.

9:25 PM

He is believed to be both, but if we are to take this simple, logical argument, such a being cannot exist.

The only flaw is if there is nothing God can't do, then he is both all knowing and omnipotent. It's still interesting though.

if God was omnipotent, and all knowing, and wanted to learn more, than it could just create more information

I suppose in fiction you might make a character be anything and anyhow. I for myself believe that if there was a god, he would likely not be as he is portrayed by religions currently. He just seems perfect, but seems to do way too much harm.

4:52 PM

That does not make me instantly claim there is no god, but it makes at least the one presented seem a rather poorly written character.

4:53 PM

And that is rather sad since he is supposed to be the protagonist xD

4:54 PM

I mean I get being a lazy writter with secondary characters, even though that destroys the story overall for me too, eventually, but such an important one? That's just bad.

God definitely can't by omnipotent, omniscient, and have our interests in mind, since bad things happen (edited)

5:19 PM

that's why I am agnostic, if there is a god it either wouldn't know that I'm worshiping it, wouldn't be able to reward me for worshiping it, or wouldn't care. and if there isn't a god then it would all be a waist of time anyway

I think it's hypothetically plausible for a deity to be omnipotent and omniscient while also having your interests in mind

6:25 PM

Omnipotence and omniscience would seem to imply they understand your interests better than you do

6:28 PM

Bad things that happen might not appear "bad" to such a deity, rather simply natural consequences of our nature as non-omnipotent non-omniscient beings. Maybe no bad things happen in the eyes of such a deity. Maybe all bad things that do happen are justified in the eyes of an omnipotent omniscient deity. Maybe the deity wants bad things to happen to lesser beings regardless of if they are justified.

6:34 PM

In the context and domain of the "all-seeing, all-knowing," concepts like good and bad start becoming poor descriptors of what actually happens

6:37 PM

"God creates the cosmos and universe" - Is that good or bad?

in that case, God made me too dumb to be able to understand that things that happened aren't actually bad, in which case god is still bad in my view

9:01 PM

from God's perspective we may be next to nothing, and our feelings insignificant, but that's not true from my perspective, so to me, if God is all powerful and all knowing, then god cannot be something that I would consider good

9:02 PM

I'm not trying to convert anyone btw, I just like debating

I'm pretty sure all deities exist. The Astral has this weird effect where if enough people really believe in something then that thing will appear in the astral. There are probably several variations of God in there now by this logic-

9:02 PM

But I think the idea is that when you die you go to whichever heaven is ruled by the deity you follow.

9:03 PM

That way a Muslim doesn't go to a Christian heaven and get angry.

what if you worship no god?

Then... I'm not sure? You wouldn't end up in Limbo. It's possible you're given a choice between reincarnation and living a new life in the Astral.

9:04 PM

But I don't have any evidence that can confirm or deny this. Sorry.

and what about a deity that only one person worships

Well, that deity won't exist so it doesn't count as following a deity.

so is there a halfway point where a god only sort of exists?

9:07 PM

or is it all or nothing?

All or nothing, I think. An idea will appear based on the idea itself. If a bunch of people believed this deity was all-powerful, then it would need to be all-powerful in order to exist.

btw if I'm being anoying with all these questions, do call me out on it

Nya! It's okay, actually!

9:08 PM

Questions are good

9:09 PM

Not asking questions about these things can be pretty bad- Some instances of Christianity have become cults because the leaders have forbidden their followers from asking questions-

so a deity only has power equal to the sum of it's followers?

Sorta? It would make sense if a belief required a certain number of followers to appear.

9:10 PM

The more powerful it is, the more people need to believe in it in order to grant it the power to exist.

well forbidding asking questions is obviously bad, but sometimes you just don't have the energy to answer a question

If you believed in a god that specialises in making wine, it would require less followers to make than the god that could do everything perfectly.

9:11 PM

I think...

9:12 PM

This is more based in what would make sense than actual learned information so you'll have to take this with a grain of salt.

so it's too do with the total amount of belief that is invested into the deity then?

9:13 PM

well I'll be frank, I don't believe in any of the meta stuff, but I am curious about this idea about deity's

9:13 PM

really a lot of meta stuff is interesting even if I don't think any of it is true

Deities apply more to the Astral anyway and, based on my own theories, generally have a very limited influence over Earth.

I see

My whole position on meta stuff is mostly eh-whatever-works-for-them-even-if-it's-bullshit I'm probably halfway interested in what people even do/start with to go down the rabbithole here

One thing to that helps is to think about what normal people do

9:39 PM

You can have a religion, that's a great way to learn more about a deity

9:40 PM

You can have no religion, that's fine too

9:40 PM

As for if people's concepts about deities exist on the astral plane and possibly even that version of the afterlife too... Well I kindly doubt it

I've yet to see/experience any sort of evidence for such in the slightest, myself

To me, I go for whatever experience teaches me. Should I ever encounter any deity, then I will believe in it, but I would not worship it. If god really existed, and he is indeed almighty, then my mere existance means nothing to him, so it goes for wether I worship him or not as well. If his existance depends on the number of worshipers such as earlier debated here, that implies we existed before he did, and he is a kind of a common core thoughtform, but if that is true, then he cannot have created the universe. Odd concepts, folks! I love to be in a place where we can debate freely without anyone getting triggered

"But I think the idea is that when you die you go to whichever heaven is ruled by the deity you follow" Too bad I think I'm going to hell. thonk

Well... It's possible that if you WANT to go to Hell and you've been a good person then you're more likely going to be treated to things based off of the sings... A Banquet for Gluttony, a Harem for Lust... And I can't think of the rest-

7:31 AM

But, again, I have no evidence to prove or disprove this so just keep taking this with a grain of salt until I can prove or disprove it which, considering how difficult it is to get physical evidence of the Astral, may never happen.

7:31 AM

Still, if I get any, I'll be sure to bring it here.

Allow me to just believe in a heaven where I go to inexist.

Allow me to go to a heaven just to not talk about dying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6fcK_fRYaI

Kurzgesagt – In a Nutshell

The Egg

I'm Shinto. People don't go to heaven or hell - there's no divine punishment or reward, no cosmic good or evil. You just.. continue to exist, is all. Kami. That's my belief, anyway.

never thought i'd hear about that story from here, much less through kurzgesagt

4:09 PM

i did really lean towards a solipsistic perspective a while back, before clara came around was also fucking dumb back then so

Theory: Cognitive Tulpas are the basic types that function just as well as the Metaphysics ones minus those metaphysical abilities. Metaphysical Tulpas are the more complex type that can be made from scratch using known metaphysical resources, or by expanding upon a Cognitive Tulpa with those same resources.

@Seras Lain What are the "known metaphysical resources" for creating a metaphysical tulpa?

@Yuka Currently, the only known resource would be Energy gained by unlocking and charging the Chakras through Meditation and a belief in the metaphysical that allows a Tulpa to access that Energy.

I am not sure about the energy part, unless you mean the energy and effort put into any tulpa's development but I do agree that one system's beliefs are the root of some discrepancies in how different systems work. That does not prove any metaphysical nature of tulpa workings, though. I'm into it, whatever be, as long as it keeps a system healthy and properly functioning.

im gonna go ahead and post here that i am interested in the potential metaphysical relationship of a tulpa with the host etc, im not sure what all goes on in here but im Interested lol

It's not really too much different from a normal Tulpa. The Metaphysical part allows the Tulpa some limited interaction with the world around it but, considering my two-worlds theory, those interactions will not affect the physical world unless the Tulpa finds a way to inhabit it, which would make it a very real lifeform most likely.

Question--is it possible to have one person using whatever magic or otherwise send some sort of message to another, and have them reply in real life? More preferably would be to have it be the other way around, the "nonbeliever" sending a message to someone trained in the art of whoknowswhat, and them replying back in chat with what they received, which they'd only know if things as such were...actually a phenomenon, I guess A body of proof is one way to put it

That's normally done through Projection, but both parties need to be trained for that to work. Communication of this type is another hurdle beyond projection. Though, sending a message is much easier than receiving and interpreting it since it involves intent.

@sea-mist. ?

12:23 PM

Here, you may be able to get her back

hi Ranger. I also do have Jesse programmed with certain metaphysical stuff. maybe that is how he knew where the object I lost was. He even got me to open the book to the very page it was lost in

I'm not into meta stuff, but other people here may be able to help you

12:24 PM

I'm still willing to chat, but I may not be the best person to help you

I take the meta stuff seriously.. so I was not about to mess with no sorcessor one can say. Hence why I never tried to get Violet back. My physical health went downhill from then.. Im not even 50 yet and have to often use a wheelchair.

12:25 PM

So I wonder if that being is using my energy through Violet or something. Hopefully one day I'll get answers to that weird experience

12:26 PM

anyway.. I'm back to working with Jesse and maybe if I keep working with him, maybe I will be able to find out some answers.

I have heard people talk about sigils and dealing with witches before, so I thought maybe there's a way to help

In occult circles.. people sometimes use watchers.. and I've also programmed Jesse to hopefully be able to do things like that out though I have never tested him with that yet

12:28 PM

a watcher is usually a kind of like servitor which can be sent out to observe things. (edited)

I'm going to sound like an idiot if I try to come up with solutions, because I don't know the lingo very well and I am far from an expert on how magic works

you are fine. Do you know if there a tulpa chat place which is more metaphysical than the one here?

Hmm... I don't know one off the top of my head. I can take a quick peek at #server-hub ...

it's okay. I don't mind hanging around here while I'm working on Jesse as that is more normal

12:31 PM

I need to get him back talking to me again.

I found a Buddhist based server, but not anything magic metaphysical unless dark edge of the mind counts, but I figure that they're not the right place for you to go to because they want vampire, werewolf, and demon type tulpas. (edited)

wow. I never thought Buddhists would be into that.. why demon ones? are they trying to scare psychics lol.

12:34 PM

that is so weird

I thought Buddhists have a do no harm to anyone thing.

12:35 PM

that sounds like black magick stuff